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sci.geo.satellite-nav (Global Satellite Navigation) (sci.geo.satellite-nav) Discussion of global navigation satellite systems (GNSS). Topics include the technical aspects of GNSS operation, user experiences in the use of GNSS, information regarding GNSS products and discussion of GNSS policy (such as GPS selective availability).

INDOOR Positioning: New Solutions for Challenging Applications



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 2nd 04, 10:10 PM posted to sci.geo.satellite-nav
Pole Star
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Posts: 7
Default INDOOR Positioning: New Solutions for Challenging Applications

Abstract
Urgency calls applications, encouraged by regulations E911/E112, recently
led communication carriers to develop systems allowing a guaranteed location
of mobile terminals. Location must be carried out in all the environments
covered by the communication service, including the most constraining areas
such as deep indoor environments. This location capability, combined with a
data transfer service, opens the way for a new market named LBS ("Location
Based Services"). The development perspectives of this market are
exponential, but positioning systems designers face significant constraints
to meet performances requirements of urban and indoor applications.

A study named "AMINA" co-funded by the French space agency (CNES) was
undertaken by Pole Star. Its objectives were to determine which technologies
would better satisfy various indoor LBS applications. This paper describes
results of this study and discusses technical challenges, candidate
technologies and solutions.

Criteria used to compare candidate technologies are first defined, evocating
positioning performances, communication capacity, implementation costs,
ubiquity and versatility versus operational modes (e.g. in car mode or
pedestrian mode).

Many systems, such as the positioning methods of cellular networks (UMTS and
A-GPS) or Wireless networks (WIFI, Bluetooth), and specific long range and
short-range radiolocation systems are then evaluated and compared.

GPS and the future European system Galileo will allow sufficient positioning
performances in open environment, but need augmentation for urban and indoor
environment. The study has thus been directed on the hybridation or transfer
possibilities between GNSS and other systems. MEMS ("Micro Electro
Mechanical Systems"), which currently experience significant developments
and offer new perspectives for the hybridation of GNSS with inertial
navigation systems, have been analysed in this field.

A special attention has also been paid on UWB ("Ultra Wide Band")
technology. This new research domain promises location and communication
capabilities and can be envisaged as an indoor local element for Galileo.

Ongoing and future activities engaged by the CNES and Pole Star are finally
described.

Read the entire article on http://www.polestar-corporate.com


  #2  
Old August 3rd 04, 10:34 AM posted to sci.geo.satellite-nav
Andreas van Hooijdonk
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Posts: 290
Default INDOOR Positioning: New Solutions for Challenging Applications

Pole Star wrote:
Abstract



GPS and the future European system Galileo will allow sufficient
positioning performances in open environment, but need augmentation
for urban and indoor environment. The study has thus been directed on
the hybridation or transfer possibilities between GNSS and other
systems. MEMS ("Micro Electro Mechanical Systems"), which currently
experience significant developments and offer new perspectives for
the hybridation of GNSS with inertial navigation systems, have been
analysed in this field.

A special attention has also been paid on UWB ("Ultra Wide Band")
technology. This new research domain promises location and
communication capabilities and can be envisaged as an indoor local
element for Galileo.

Read the entire article on http://www.polestar-corporate.com


Thanks for the great contribution.

If we consider the five operational areas for GPS (in natural order) as

1. The open outdoors

2. Outdoors with natural obstructions like trees and canyons

3. Outdoors with man-made obstructions like high buildings

4. Light Indoors

5. Deep Indoors

GPS can only do the job in its own under 1.

1 to 4 can be addressed by A-GPS and DTV, where DTV goes somewhat deeper
inside buildings than A-GPS

For 5 UWB and INS seem good solutions.

Conclusion: if every cellular network had A-GPS installed, areas 1 to 4
could be covered to-day. This would already allow a lot of (new)
applications.
--
Andreas van Hooijdonk
http://www.gps-practice-and-fun.com





  #3  
Old August 3rd 04, 11:34 AM posted to sci.geo.satellite-nav
Iwo Mergler
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Posts: 19
Default INDOOR Positioning: New Solutions for Challenging Applications

Andreas van Hooijdonk wrote:

If we consider the five operational areas for GPS (in natural order) as

1. The open outdoors

2. Outdoors with natural obstructions like trees and canyons

3. Outdoors with man-made obstructions like high buildings

4. Light Indoors

5. Deep Indoors

GPS can only do the job in its own under 1.

1 to 4 can be addressed by A-GPS and DTV, where DTV goes somewhat deeper
inside buildings than A-GPS

For 5 UWB and INS seem good solutions.

Conclusion: if every cellular network had A-GPS installed, areas 1 to 4
could be covered to-day. This would already allow a lot of (new)
applications.


I've got to nit-pick on this one... ;^)

A-GPS is a shortcut. It offers the data you would normally
download from the satellites through a different channel.

All you need for your areas 2-5 are longer integration
times for the signal. Unaided GPS can theoretically work
anywhere where A-GPS does, but the required aquisition
times / computing power become impractical.

For the indoor case, the computing required to detect one
satellite grows exponetially with the attenuation.

Gallileo will improve the situation somewhat for the indoor
case, as the signals can be decoded with linear computing
effort.

Kind regards,

Iwo
  #4  
Old August 3rd 04, 02:57 PM posted to sci.geo.satellite-nav
Hans-Georg Michna
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Posts: 764
Default INDOOR Positioning: New Solutions for Challenging Applications

How about this proposal for indoor positioning?

To open an area to positioning, go there and find out what
electromagnetic signals are there (like TV signals). Pick
several of the most suitable ones and watch for certain
conspicuous signal sequences.

On another channel, broadcast the information about the exact
timing of these conspicuous signal sequences along with the
locations of the transmitters.

That's all there is to it. The receivers, of course, would have
to look for those conspicuous signal sequences and store them
for some time, FIFO fashion, until they receive the timing
information a little later, then they can determine the
position.

The advantage of this method is that the transmitters and their
signals don't have to be modified. They only have to be
evaluated and processed.

Remember, you've read it here first. (:-)

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.
  #5  
Old August 3rd 04, 05:41 PM posted to sci.geo.satellite-nav
Dale DePriest
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Posts: 16
Default INDOOR Positioning: New Solutions for Challenging Applications

Hardly first, I am afraid. There are already patents on this technology.

Dale

Hans-Georg Michna wrote:

How about this proposal for indoor positioning?

To open an area to positioning, go there and find out what
electromagnetic signals are there (like TV signals). Pick
several of the most suitable ones and watch for certain
conspicuous signal sequences.

On another channel, broadcast the information about the exact
timing of these conspicuous signal sequences along with the
locations of the transmitters.

That's all there is to it. The receivers, of course, would have
to look for those conspicuous signal sequences and store them
for some time, FIFO fashion, until they receive the timing
information a little later, then they can determine the
position.

The advantage of this method is that the transmitters and their
signals don't have to be modified. They only have to be
evaluated and processed.

Remember, you've read it here first. (:-)

Hans-Georg


--
_ _ Dale DePriest
/`) _ // http://users.cwnet.com/dalede
o/_/ (_(_X_(` For GPS and GPS/PDAs

  #6  
Old August 3rd 04, 10:31 PM posted to sci.geo.satellite-nav
Hans-Georg Michna
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Posts: 764
Default INDOOR Positioning: New Solutions for Challenging Applications

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 09:41:08 -0700, Dale DePriest
wrote:

Hardly first, I am afraid. There are already patents on this technology.


Dale,

really? Well, at least I am inventive. (:-)

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.
  #7  
Old August 4th 04, 05:46 PM posted to sci.geo.satellite-nav
Dale DePriest
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,406
Default INDOOR Positioning: New Solutions for Challenging Applications

Try
http://www.rosum.com/rosum_tv-gps_in...echnology.html

The basics are that a TV antenna is at a fixed location, The TV signal
contains a timestamp which can be used in the same way as a time stamp
in GPS. Thus 3 stations can results in a 2D fix in the same way that it
is done in a GPS system by getting pseudo ranges and then correcting.
You cannot get a 3D fix. Augmentation can be provided by another source
that provides clock correction data for the individual TV stations. It
doesn't work very well if all the stations in your area pick the same
hill for the transmitter towers.

Dale


Hans-Georg Michna wrote:

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 09:41:08 -0700, Dale DePriest
wrote:


Hardly first, I am afraid. There are already patents on this technology.



Dale,

really? Well, at least I am inventive. (:-)

Hans-Georg


--
_ _ Dale DePriest
/`) _ // http://users.cwnet.com/dalede
o/_/ (_(_X_(` For GPS and GPS/PDAs

  #8  
Old August 4th 04, 07:22 PM posted to sci.geo.satellite-nav
Hans-Georg Michna
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Posts: 764
Default INDOOR Positioning: New Solutions for Challenging Applications

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:46:18 -0700, Dale DePriest
wrote:

Try
http://www.rosum.com/rosum_tv-gps_in...echnology.html

The basics are that a TV antenna is at a fixed location, The TV signal
contains a timestamp which can be used in the same way as a time stamp
in GPS. Thus 3 stations can results in a 2D fix in the same way that it
is done in a GPS system by getting pseudo ranges and then correcting.
You cannot get a 3D fix. Augmentation can be provided by another source
that provides clock correction data for the individual TV stations. It
doesn't work very well if all the stations in your area pick the same
hill for the transmitter towers.


Dale,

you didn't get the core of my idea. They need to modify the TV
transmitters to send predefined time signals. My invention
doesn't even touch the TV transmitters. It uses their unmodified
signals.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.
  #9  
Old August 4th 04, 07:28 PM posted to sci.geo.satellite-nav
Carsten Kurz
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Posts: 1,498
Default INDOOR Positioning: New Solutions for Challenging Applications



Hans-Georg Michna schrieb:

you didn't get the core of my idea. They need to modify the TV
transmitters to send predefined time signals. My invention
doesn't even touch the TV transmitters. It uses their unmodified
signals.


How many sources and types of 'ephemeris' type data do you need for this
technique?

Who should control the aiding data channels? And more important, who has
to pay for it?

No, it's all already there in GSM and similiar networks.

- Carsten




--
Audio Visual Systems fon: +49 (0)2234 601886
Carsten Kurz fax: +49 (0)2234 601887
Von-Werth-Straße 111 email:
50259 Pulheim / Germany WGS84:N50°57'50.2" E06°47'28.5"
  #10  
Old August 4th 04, 09:05 PM posted to sci.geo.satellite-nav
Hans-Georg Michna
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 764
Default INDOOR Positioning: New Solutions for Challenging Applications

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 20:28:54 +0200, Carsten Kurz
wrote:

Hans-Georg Michna schrieb:


you didn't get the core of my idea. They need to modify the TV
transmitters to send predefined time signals. My invention
doesn't even touch the TV transmitters. It uses their unmodified
signals.


How many sources and types of 'ephemeris' type data do you need for this
technique?

Who should control the aiding data channels? And more important, who has
to pay for it?

No, it's all already there in GSM and similiar networks.


Carsten,

why then does Rosum try to use TV transmissions for indoor
positioning?

As to your questions above, I don't know. I only uttered a
technical idea. I don't know who might pay for it.

The essence of what I'm saying is that existing data
transmissions can be used for positioning without modifying the
transmissions.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.
 




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